Reverse Time

Poetic Idea
Creator: Andy
Played by: Andy
"but what about events in the future? can they cause changes in the past?"

Game II Core Wave: "Ancient Ideas in Modern Times" or "Time Transcendent Ideas."

Primary Category

Related Categories

Relationship to Core Wave

Just like an event in the past? Ripples in history?

Connection Tunnels

  • Alien Dream Time
  • The Bridge

    Highlight Quotes

    Time is something physicists invented to keep everything from happening at once.
    -- Richard Feynmann (?)

    Time is something invented by the Swiss to sell watches.
    -- Douglas Adams

    Tomorrow's just another day, and I don't believe in Time.
    -- Hootie and the Blowfish

    "Time won't give me time.....But time makes lovers feel like they've got something real."
    -- Culture Club / Boy George

    Ripple in still water, when there is no pebble tossed, nor wind to blow.
    --The Grateful Dead

    When no wind at all disturbs the kiri tree the leaves that fall!
    --Zen Poet Yaha

    Entering the water he makes not a ripple, Entering the forest he moves not the grass.
    -- Zen proverb

    A bruised reed he will not break, And a smoldering wick he will not snuff out.
    -- Isaiah's prophecy of Jesus

    Geographic Location

    Greenwhich, England.

    Images and Clips

    Access and Distribution

    John Cramer's Web Site. John Cramer's Technical Pages.

  • Main Submission

    there are ripples in water
    and there are ripples in history

    a drop of water at the center of a pond causes the toy boat at the edge to rock
    just like an event in the past causes our lives to differentiate
    but what about events in the future?
    can they cause changes in the past?
    -- Andy

    Follow Ups

    " but what about events in the future? can they cause changes in the past? "

    RB. Fuller realized there are no things, only actions - hence, "I seem to be a verb!" The slowest rivers appear as still lakes or ponds, but even these flow, downhill/through time. Self contained water systems are oceanic, displaying circulation/flow when observed at the appropriate scale. Universe at rest is self-contradiction.

    In a river, a wave event is propagated preferentially downstream/into the future/with the flow. Human activity scales to a grain of sand in a rapidly flowing mountain stream. Splashing in Baton Rouge makes no wave in St. Louis.

    Accepting Tao flow leads to (tai chi)Chuan; eight men in a boat have no oars and flow effortlessly into the future, perfectly poised on the eternal now. -- Jonathan Byron

    What we know about the past is our perception of it. Therefore events in the future can change our perception of the past, but not the actual past. While this may seem simple it is not; almost all of us take our perceptions of the past to be the past. While events in the past are usually easily-supported facts, the reasons for these events are not definite and are therefore interpreted more freely. While we may not know why JFK was killed, or even who killed him, we do know that he was shot and is dead.

    Applying this to your example of a ripple in a pond rocking a toy boat, we may in the future find out that the ripple was actually caused by the motion of the toy boat itself, and therefore no longer name the ripple as the cause of the boat's motion. We instead see the true cause as the boat itself, thereby changing our idea as to why the boat rocked, but none the less it still rocked. -- Carey Radebaugh

    i thank you i forgot that wrap-around theory i see in your idea the toy boat can and most possibly will rock itself but it is hard to distinguish the drop of waters ripple from the toy boats' -- Andy

    try switching your mind stop thinking real try thinking about the mind got it? foreshadowing, soothing, i dont care how you put it but people ARE affected by the future in the present even moreso in the past ripples bounce back to the orignal point of origin -- Andy

    Hi Andy, You rock. You still rock. You always rock. So anyway speaking of rocking the boat, your move immediately reminded me of a new physics theory I heard about. Bear with me because this is going to be very loose and I may not get the exact wordings right but I'll get an approximation of the idea across.

    The guy is John G. Cramer and his idea as I understand it goes something like this

    There is a mathematical formula in quantum physics and part of the formula implies information moving backwards through time. This aspect of the formula has always been considered just a fluke to be ignored but it must be kept in because this part of the formula is necessary to make the formula balance out and work.

    Cramer has suggested if you take the implication seriously all the quantum weirdness (simultaneous dead and alive cats, etc.) disappears.

    I will link Cramer's web site below because you shouldn't take my laymen's description to literally. However, I think it is valuable to know that continuously the world of science is discovering that it is the same world as the world of spirituality. John G. Cramer is also a great science (and science fiction writer) and he can make complicated ideas understandable. See the link to his articles in Analog magazine. -- Robert C. Cohen

    Foucault's Pendulum pt. 32:
    "'Take the debate on the Corpus Hermeticum. When that document came to light in Europe in the fifteenth century, Pico della Mirandola, Ficino, and many other people of great wisdom immediately realized that it had to be a work of most ancient wisdom, antedating the Egyptians, antedating even Moses himself. It contained ideas that would later be expressed by Plato and Jesus.' 'What do you mean later? That's the same argument Bramanti used to prove Dante was a Mason. If the Corpus repeats ideas of Plato and Jesus, it must have been written after them!' 'You see? You're doing it, too. That was exactly the argument of modern philologists, who also added wordy linguistic analyses intended to show that the Corpus was written in the second century of our era. It's like saying that Cassandra must have been born after Homer because she predicted the destruction of Troy. The belief that time is a linear, directed sequence running from A to B is a modern illusion. In fact, it can also go from B to A, the effect producing the cause. . . . What does coming before" mean or "coming after"? Does your beautiful Amparo come before or after her motley ancestors? She is too splendid-if you will allow a dispassionate opinion from a man old enough to be her father. She thus comes before. She is the mysterious origin of whatever went into her creation.'" -- Umberto Eco
    -- Robert C. Cohen

    Quotes from John Cramer's technical web page:

    "The basic element of the transactional interpretation (TI)is an emitter-absorber transaction through the exchange of advanced and retarded waves, as first described by Wheeler and Feynman (1945, 1949) [see also (Feynman, 1967b)]. Advanced waves are solutions of the electromagnetic wave equation and other similar wave equations which contain only the second time derivative. Advanced waves have characteristic eigenvalues of negative energy and frequency, and they propagate in the negative time direction." -- John Cramer

    "We will find that the TI, which is objective and explicitly nonlocal... provides a description of the state vector as an actual wave physically present in real space." -- John Cramer

    --Robert C. Cohen

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